JR Newsletter: 15 December 2024 (651)

On the ongoing discussion of CAC Grading …

 

 James Higby wrote:

 

For the record, I own a few "green-beaned" coins.  I did not purchase them for the beans.  I purchased them for being the grades assigned by PCGS and NGC as I interpret them.  Each and every time that I take out a slabbed coin for a new look, I say to myself that yes, it is the grade assigned.  No, it is not any better than the grade assigned if a bean is present.  Obviously, the person who had the coin beaned thought differently and paid extra to prove his hypothesis - to himself.  That's his privilege.  But once that same coin is in my collection I can call it anything I want.  That's my privilege.  Thanks for listening.  End of rant.

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Sean Kelly wrote:

 

A bravura performance by Brad Karoleff.  I might add two things: CACG will combine orders into one return box, saving on shipping/insurance costs and reducing instances of risk by putting multiple boxes in the ether. CACG registry will allow other holders, thus obviating the need to cross everything to their slabs.

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John Bailey wrote:

 

Brad,

Your comments on third party grading and the CAC seal of approval are spot on.

CAC is like asking for a second opinion. That’s never a bad idea in coins or anything else in life.

The fact that long time collectors push back on this is only natural. People do not like change.

That said PCGS, NGC & CAC are now the market standard for U.S. coins. Personally, all my coins are slabbed and stickered.

At this point I only buy coins that are already slabbed and stickered.

 

John D. Bailey

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Also, Steve Herrman wrote on a completely different topic:

 

The new, December 2024 revision of Auction Prices Realized for Early Silver Dollars 1794-1803, Number 6, is now available. The availability of printed copies is limited. $3 is donated to JRCS for each copy sold.

 

Printed copies are $40 postpaid via Media Mail

PDF format copies are $28 via Email

Both printed and PDF format copies are $46

 

Please contact Steve Herrman at herrman102(at)aol.com

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From the Editor:

I recently read on Facebook that Bill Luebke passed away on August 23, 2024. Many may not know or recall that Bill initiated "JR News" before handing it to me in 2009.  He thought it was a good idea to create a regular email so that JRCS members and other interested people could exchange information about our hobby.  

 

 

 

JR Newletter: 8 December 2024 (650)

We have additional responses to one reader’s inquiry in prior issues of the JR Newsletter about CAC grading.  

First, from Brad Karoleff:

The last two weeks’ JR Newsletters (JRN) have had comments concerning the new CACG grading company.  I would like to take a moment to answer the author’s questions/concerns, based on my experiences.

First, to be perfectly transparent, I have chosen CACG to grade my personal collection.  I will explain the reasons later, as well as the PRELIMINARY results.  I plan an article(s) later detailing my experiences that will be published in the John Reich Journal.

Jack initially wrote in JRN #648 about CACG placing a pre-embossed CAC emblem on each holder.  That is, of course, their corporate logo identifying the company. The other grading services proudly display their corporate logos on their holders.  Would you want PCGS or NGC to remove their corporate identity from their holders?  Just because it looks like the “green bean” applied to PCGS and NGC holders for superior coins contained in their plastic should not cause any confusion as the new CACG holders do not resemble any other services holders.  

In the latest newsletter, #649, James wrote he believes “CAC is a racket”.  Why?  Is it different from any other third party grading service in what they provide the collector?  NO!  They provide their OPINION of the grade of the coin submitted.  Their opinion may differ from the other major services- usually to the stricter side- is that the problem?  He states that he began collecting when Brown and Dunn was the accepted system. That would also mirror my introduction to the hobby.  When Photograde was first published, I remember collectors criticizing the “new looser standards” they introduced.  

The next step in professional grading happened with the ANA providing photo certificates authenticating coins submitted and offering their opinion of grades on the coin- separate obverse and reverse grades!

PCGS then entered the marketplace with their certified “slabs”, increasing security of the process.  NGC soon followed becoming PCGS’s main competitor.  We all know what has happened over the years with the modifications in each company’s holders and grading standards which is often referred to as grade inflation.  Prized older holder coins are often worth more for a reason that is not always the rarity of the holder itself.  Only time will tell if CACG can retain their grading standards through market fluctuations and changes in the grading room.  

The CAC STICKERING service came into being to identify premium coins in both PCGS and NGC holders.  We now had a grading company that was grading the other grading companies.  Was their pushback to this?  Certainly, but the marketplace soon spoke loudly, showing superior prices realized for those “green beaned” coins.  Some collectors became so “married” to the concept that they do not purchase anything for their collections that does not don the bean.  This excludes many coins from their consideration that are still considered nice, acceptable coins by many in the marketplace.  Each collector determines the standards for his set.  Employing the grading services PROFESSIONAL opinion is significant, but not the final answer.  Personal knowledge is still, and always should be, king.

Now, let me discuss why I have PERSONALLY decided on CACG for grading my coins.  

1.  I agree with John’s philosophy that grading standards should not change over time. Sticking to a fixed standard, even if not everyone agrees, over time, will result in predictable pricing results.  Ever wonder why sight unseen and sight seen bids are so much different for coins in other holders?

2.  I have graded many coins through each of the services mentioned above.  I continue to use each service for different coins based on a business decision for each individual coin. Return time is one of the major reasons for some of the decisions.

3.  Since I have employed all the services for many years, I do have a few perspectives based on my individual experiences.  Most importantly when something goes wrong, how is it handled?  Most recently the other two grading services have changed ownership structure and customer relations, in my opinion, has significantly suffered.  In the past I was able to talk with someone at either service who either had numismatic knowledge or knew when to forward me to someone who did.  Calls now go to a call center and questions are answered by someone reading a FAQ sheet.  I cannot adequately describe my frustration with a recent conversation with one of the services.  I finally just gave up and submitted my coins to CACG.  If there is a problem at CACG you will be speaking with someone physically present at CACG who has general numismatic knowledge or who will be willing to get someone to help you that does. This is A MAJOR advantage in my book.

4.  Pricing and turnaround times are competitive or better than the other services.  

5.  The team at CACG has been carefully built with extremely respected members.  The team leaders have extensive experience in the industry and are well respected members of the community.  

6.  John offered me a very fair deal in getting my collection pedigreed and identified with attributions.  One of the other services refused to even consider pedigreeing my collection that was 98% complete by die marriage as it would not place high enough in their census because I collect primarily XF grades, not AU-UNC.

7.  In addition, I was able to arrange for drop-off and pickup service at their facility to prevent the possibility of loss during shipping.  I have spent a lifetime putting together the collection and am not willing to trust it to third party delivery. 

Some may look at this as an advertisement for CACG.  It is my PERSONAL experience and my PERSONAL decision.  I understand many of the leaders will have ties to the registry sets at other services and that is their personal decision, which I support.  I did what I thought would be the best for me and my heirs.  I am happy to discuss experiences with anyone interested.  So far, mine at CACG has been very positive- if not always in agreement with my previous assessment.  

 

Brad Karoleff

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Next, we have input from Alan Weinberg:

 

I started collecting in 1958 so I’m glad to read that James Higby has been collecting 70 years. 

Numismatics was fun back then. Bright or dipped was good, naturally toned coins were frowned upon. Slabbing was non-existent and you had to “know your stuff”. 

 

My mentors were Aaron Feldman (“buy the book before the coin”), Bill Anton Jr and John Ford  (both of whom you had to watch your back but who were friendly with plenty of advice). I followed their collecting tastes.  Today it’s all about grade/market value with silly $ differences for even “plus” signs. It seems the coin is quite secondary to the plastic slab grade  or CAC sticker for too many collectors.

 

Alan V Weinberg

 

 

 

 

JR Newsletter: 1 December 2024 (649)

This is Glenn Peterson and I have been intrigued about bust dimes with cuds. I am planning to write an article about bust dime cuds updating information about this late die state coins. If you have information about these coins or photographs of the coins please email me gpeters(at)tds.net  

Thanks

Glenn

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In response to last week’s question concerning CAC posted by reader Jack, James Higby wrote:

 

I think CAC is a racket.  I have several CAC'd items that are the numerical  grade on the holder, but otherwise not special in any way.  BTW, I started collecting 70 years ago, when Brown & Dunn were about all there was.

 

James

JR Newsletter: 24 November 2024 (648)

Reader Jack wrote:

 

What is your thinking on John Albanese' grading where every raw coin submitted comes back in a holder pre-embossed with a CAC emblem?

 

thanks,

Jack

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Herman Turner wrote:

 

I sent an email on my 1824 O-116…it has some of the features talked about.  It is on PCGS certified with photos.

JR Newsletter: 17 November 2024 (647)

Jeffrey Amelse wrote an article on attributing a particular 1824 O-116 Capped Bust Half Dollar.  The article is linked for readers below.  He intends to talk about the article and the process he followed in attributing the half dollar at the JRCS Quarterly Zoom meeting on November 20th.

 

The linked article:  https://mcusercontent.com/74a0e3c37d154d935bdeb2daf/files/08c0b19b-38e4-b766-f03c-0604a1598e8b/On_the_1824_O_116_Capped_Bust_Half_Dollar.pdf

 

 

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Alan Bricker wrote:

 

At a south-central Pennsylvania coin show during 1994 I encountered a harshly cleaned 1837 Reeded Edge Bust Half unlike any that I had seen to date. Further, Jules Reiver was unaware of a matching example. Without declaring it to be a “new” die marriage, I decided to “wait and see” for a matching (preferably better condition and grade) example to come to light. Richard Graham’s Reeded Edge Bust Half Dollars registry, published in 2012, did not list a match. Now, over thirty years since the coin originally surfaced, it is under scrutiny within the Reeded Edge Bust Halves community.

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From the JR Newsletter Editor:  If a reader sent me information about an 1837 half dollar that was at ICG, I never received a photo of the coin in case you wanted to publish photos for readers of the newsletter.

  

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Alan Bricker wrote:

 

At a south-central Pennsylvania coin show during 1994 I encountered a harshly cleaned 1837 Reeded Edge Bust Half unlike any that I had seen to date. Further, Jules Reiver was unaware of a matching example. Without declaring it to be a “new” die marriage, I decided to “wait and see” for a matching (preferably better condition and grade) example to come to light. Richard Graham’s Reeded Edge Bust Half Dollars registry, published in 2012, did not list a match. Now, over thirty years since the coin originally surfaced, it is under scrutiny within the Reeded Edge Bust Halves community.

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From the JR Newsletter Editor:  If a reader sent me information about an 1837 half dollar that was at ICG, I never received a photo of the coin in case you wanted to publish photos for readers of the newsletter.

 

JR Newsletter: 10 November 2024 (646)

Alan Weinberg wrote:

I acquired this  1835 John Adams Taunton Mass hard times token Low 301A out of Heritage’s Dr Robert Schuman ‘s five decades- built Hard Times Tokens auction October 28.  Won for $8000 plus 20% buyers fee or $9600 all in.

It is unique and struck over an 1811 Bust half dollar,

Overton -105A,  the 1811 date fully visible at the 3 o’clock position.

The interesting back story is that in the Heritage Donald Partrick Dec 2020 auction  lot 45271  (5 years earlier) I was Bob Schuman’s immed underbidder at Bob’s winning bid of $15,500 all in, $6000 more than I had to pay “all in” this  October. Even more ironic, I was Don Partrick’s underbidder on this same unique coin in Bowers & Ruddy’s  Oct 1982 “ NY Public Library sale “, lot 3015. Knowing both Partrick & Schuman for decades, there really was no way to bid successfully against them. One ex wealthy and the other a  determined specialist and medical doctor.

In the Schuman auction of superb Hard Times Tokens assembled since the 1970’s, both quality and prices realized were extraordinary. This piece, in my opinion, the “ sexiest” lot in the entire 

collection ( to use John Ford terminology),  had to be the only lot that Bob took a loss on and undoubtedly made up for it on other lots, one unique HTT selling for $120,000.

I provide a Schuman HT 301A Adams running boar Mass token to show what the actual token overstrike looks like. The piece I won is obviously a die trial strike and is one of the most intriguing pieces in my 66+ year numismatic collection.

Images courtesy of Heritage Dallas as I’m awaiting my lot in the mail.

Alan V Weinberg

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W. David Perkins Numismatics will have Table 818 at this coming weeks Whitman-Baltimore Coin show.

 

Dave will have a nice selection of early dollars, including R-6 to R-8 Early Dollars.  Many have CAC stickers.

 

In addition, we’re hoping to have a preview of a long time early Dime collection, including a fair number of “Dimes with Cuds.”  

 

Please stop by and see us.  Thanks.

 

W. David Perkins

Centennial, CO

 

wdperki(at)attglobal.net

 

Cell Phone 303-902-5366

JR Newsletter: 3 November 2024 (645)

 Brad Karoleff wrote with a reminder:

We are still looking for articles to fill the next issue of our journal. 

If you can help by submitting something for publication please contact me ASAP. 

Thanks

Brad

bkaroleff(at)yahoo.com